Now we are seeing the results. The suspension is unrelated to a recent report that found significant faults in Fort Hood's command climate and culture. If approved, the settlement would refund any money paid to the company by current or former P320 owners to have their pistol repaired after what it is calling a "cartridge failure event," according to a settlement information document from Sig Sauer. The P320 Carry offers a smooth, crisp trigger to make any shooter more accurate, an intuitive, 3-point takedown and unmatched modularity to fit any shooter and any situation. Misguided? They can suck on their own barrels and drop-safe their triggers right in their mouths for all I care. Would it be inappropriate to interject at this point that if one is going to copy Glock, then one should copy them properly? Steyr Arms loses patent claims against NH-based SIG Sauer's P320 and P250 handguns Steyr Arms Inc. filed the suit in 2017; a judge has ordered the case closed. Sig Sauer P320 For Sale Sig Sauer P320 Pistols and Handguns For Sale Online. SIG SAUER P320 Engraved Edition with 10 rd magazine $1,149.99. That’s what happens when an organization as big as the army makes a change to a system as big as the M17 project. That’s it so far, but there’s been nary a bobble with either Blazer Brass FMJ or Speer Gold Dot (150rds). The plaintiffs in the case -- who number more than 100, according to court documents -- claim that P320 pistols made before Aug. 8, 2017, do not include a mechanical disconnector, a feature that blocks the pistol's ability to fire when the slide and barrel are in an unlocked condition. The SIG P320 price at Omaha Outdoors drives tacks through the competition. There was never a documented issue with any of the American made weapons. And it was more than one slide. Jesus, Ted, did they make you buy one? Yes, I own a P320. /sarc. “But it’s heavy and expensive.” I hear what your saying and Imma let you finish, but I counter your argument with the fact THE DAMN THING WORKS! Front sight cannot be changed Sincerely, truly, with all my heart — FUCK Sig. SIG told TTAG that their work on the P320 trigger coincidentally fixed the drop safe issue. Sig Sauer how about you get off your ass and actually beta test your product before turning it over to civilian populous to use as a self defense weapon system! It’s been 100% reliable from the first day, which btw saw 250 rounds through it that day. Sig Sauer. Remember, Glock NEVER had a recall. The Beretta’s were not flying off due to using overpressure ammunition. When we asked about the P320 drop safe issue that August, SIG SAUER told TTAG they had modified the military model’s trigger to enhance the trigger pull and eliminate the “click” about which many users — including the U.S. Army — had complained. Give’me a break…they’ll get it worked out. A total of 14 slide failures were documented with only 3 by the Navy Seals all of which were in operational use. Quick, throw me another frame so I can swap it out! Few of us are foolish enough to actually believe that any tool made by Man is ‘perfect;’ Neither are we foolish enough to confound a mechanical defect that does NOT result in a negligent discharge with one that DOES. Earlier this summer, SIG SAUER announced the creation of its in-house custom shop, known as SIG SAUER Custom Works, and the P320 Custom Works Fire Control Unit (FCU) program. The army should have just modified them to a G model, put some thin grips on them and called it a day. New. Well shit, this changes everything! "Yolo, PS5 > letters of discipline," according to the service member. Out of Stock. I don’t care how many foreign garrison based Armies use a Glock. Must be nice. Features coyote tan finish, ambi manual thumb safety, DP Pro Plate. Most every “competitor” I know uses a 1911 style, double-stack pistol. They’re worse than Springfield. All rights reserved. That sucks. As the poster above said, this is not new tech. $1,149.99. The service's M17 and M18 MHS pistols feature an upgraded design and have "passed the U.S. Army's testing protocols," according to Sig officials. The US never signed on, but we’ve abided by it, so look at something like the Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator/Defender that isn’t a hollow point, can defeat at least level II armor, is fairly barrier blind, and functions within spec pressures. Here’s how the P320 works, and how it performed at the range. You want our government to spend more money than it already does?? Regular readers will remember our ongoing coverage of the polymer pistol’s drop safe problem, leading to a “voluntary recall.” We now learn that SIG knew about the issue long before it hit the media . The military relies heavily on space-based technologies to keep its edge on the battlefield. There’s a reason why there is so much xm855 and xm885 on the market. correct. Usually get what you pay for. They also need better maintenance programs. The military wanted a modular pistol and that’s what they got. Nostalgic for slides flying off and hitting people in the face? New. The P320® Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost. When Sig Sauer unveiled the Sig P320 model in 2014, a key selling point was that it did away with this necessity. Out of Stock. As part of the design upgrade, a mechanical disconnector was added to "enhance trigger feel and consistency, as well as to prevent a dead trigger condition when the trigger has been pulled with the slide retracted," according to the statement. This beretta slide crap was addressed before most soldiers were born. Weren’t you paying attention in science lab? Sig Sauer P320: Gun Review. It’s a whole new concept in handguns: make the frame, barrel, slide, and even caliber of one gun interchangeable. OEM Sig Sauer P320 Takedown Lever, Tungsten DLC Part# 1300777-02-R Note: Does not include O-Ring (38. I just don’t like the way it feels, it’s just too damn big to be wrapped around the 9mm cartridge. Over the last year, my SIG Sauer P320 XCompact has seen everything from snow and sub-zero temperatures to rain and hot summer days at the sandy section of the range. Multiply by the weight of the gun and divide by twice the acceleration of gravity, and you get the recoil energy in foot pounds. They should have bought the FNX-45!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Featuring a gold titanium nitride coating and lightened skeletonized trigger, the stand-alone, serialized FCU allows shooters to build their own P320 pistol using SIG and aftermarket grip modules, slides and barrels. For 30 years us Beretta fans have taken grief from Sig fans about how the Sig should have won and the Sig was better. Pardon my density, but in a world with on-demand, just in time, batch-oriented logistics n for realz mass customization … easing internal logistics with “commonality” seems off point. The Army isn’t exactly a stellar handgun teacher to begin with, and I’d bet a lot of problems would disappear with proper training and maintenance cycles. Its fine, its a pistol for an armed forces that doesn’t use them. . Best I can figure, if they’re not talking about a light strike that they are manually racking out of the chamber, is one spectacular double feed. Sig Sauer P320 in Stock at the Best Price! They should have spent more time testing the weapons system before handing it over to the civilian populace for their beta testing. This is not leading edge technology. That’s not to say that the Sig Sauer P320 isn’t completely safe to use. Add to Wish List Add to Compare. Should have completed the tests before choosing. Without knowing the “proper” temper, it just reeks of gross inconsistency. Charges Bombmaker in 1988 Pan Am Explosion over Lockerbie, A Space Force Member Was Busted Down a Rank for Bailing on PT to Get a PlayStation 5, Space Force Poised to See Major Growth, New Uniforms in 2021, Congress Passes Sweeping End-of-Year Bill Impacting 'Every Corner' of the Veteran Community, Fort Hood's Top Enlisted Soldier Suspended, Investigation Pending, The VA Has a Hospital Named for a Slavery-Supporting Confederate Doctor. The Executive Summary (linked in the article) states that after the drop fire problem was fixed by installing a lighter trigger, two triggers broke (splintered). It isn’t the same thing as being deployed in the field. The wording of the report is not entirely clear on the exact date, but it states the Army directed SIG to develop an ECP, or Engineering Change Proposal, to lighten the weight of the components in the trigger to fix the drop fire issue. Sig Sauer P320 M17 commercial variant of the military contract sidearm. I’m feeling nostalgic for the Glock 19. The only reason that this failure in action is happening is because Army Procurement decided to reinvent the wheel and didn’t test properly- or did test propery and didn’t select properly. Helping the wrong people with the wrong thing? The 11 by the army were in testing. I’m just trying to learn. One of the more interesting statements in the report is the fact that the Army discovered the drop fire issue with the XM17 pistols prior to it becoming known to the world with the P320 pistol. TTAG has placed a call to SIG SAUER for comment. They stood by and didn’t say a damn thing when an officer got shot in the leg by their defective pistol. For the most versatile pistol, available in an extensive variety of models and features, the Sig Sauer P320 for sale right here is one that can’t be beat. But they’ve been using rifles made out of recycled Schlitz cans and melted Pringles lids for years. I’m guessing no one bothered looking at the source of the report, and the other programs that were evaluated, and much more significant problems noted. F*** Sig. Then plot the data. So, I suspect that the lighter trigger installed for the Sig Voluntary Upgrade Program and in current production, has the same weakness. Heck, even in supply chain land, the cost of “stuff” skews ever more toward clerking and tracking. I’m sure that Swat Officer who got shot in the leg felt the same way, before he got shot in the leg. Add to Wish List Add to Compare. Sig Sauer P320 Lima Compact 9mm Semi-Automatic Pistol w/ LIMA320 Green Laser Grip, Stainless - 320C-9-BSS-LIMA-G . Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. My experiences have been different. Right?! Related: Sig Sauer Offers Safety Upgrade on Handgun the US Army Just Bought, "By entering into this agreement, Sig Sauer is not admitting that any of plaintiffs' allegations have merit," according to the statement. Sig Sauer P320 Sub-compact or Sig P365: The Final Verdict When it comes to P320 sub-compact or P-365, our final verdict declares the P-365 pistol as the winner. Thankfully, their Jedi mind trick didn’t work on most of us. Add to Wish List Add to Compare. Anyone feeling nostalgic for the Beretta M9 yet? After almost a year and 5,000 rounds, let’s take a look at how the SIG Sauer P320 XCompact did. A friend of mine has carried one his entire LE career with me, and fired untold number of rounds through it in that 30 years. “I am here to tell you there are no safety issues with the P320…. Is it time to mention that Glocks don’t fire when dropped, only fire when the trigger is depressed, and feed FMJ ammunition rather well? Don’t worry about SIG problems. Buy Glock…..its not “Americas got talent” or a beauty pageant…it has to work and work well…….and GLOCK WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Sig Sauer P320 is also an excellent choice for those of you that live in an area with strict gun laws, for obvious reasons. The GAO report is quite clear. Having bugs that need to be ironed out should be expected with new guns. Wasn’t that the floor requirement ? There is another problem that is concerning. Following the Senate's approval last week, the House passed the bill Wednesday by voice vote without any objections. Normally known for its double action, single action hammer fired pistols, Sig Sauer is the gold standard for semi-auto handguns. It was not the locking block, it was tellurium in the steel. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army's Modular Handgun System is based. “I will NEVER drop my gun, therefore it doesn’t matter if it is drop-safe” smacks of 1st-Degree Hubris. Can I borrow your time machine since you’ve already been to August of 2018 and I’d like to visit myself? !….GOOD G#D ALMIGHTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you know some shooters put lighter recoil springs in competition pistols to prevent…wait for it…muzzle dip! Add to Cart. Then 250 the following day. They’d be better off if they just looked at some ammo that doesn’t befoul the 1899 Hague Convention. Going to a tellurium free grade steel and adding radii to those corners fixed the issue. Mic a few of the dimensions via a set of lowly calipers. I really think that the United States Army should shitcan Sig Sauer. This is it, no question. “The Pentagon’s overview on its gear and tech programs in 2017, conducted by the Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation and released earlier in January 2018, indicated that both the XM17 and XM18 pistols demonstrated a series of persistent problems, including accidental discharge, ejecting live ammunition, and relatively frequent stoppages when firing ammunition encased in a full metal jacket.”, ……..I see no problem here…..SAYS NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sig Sauer P320 Compact 9mm / .40 Auto / .357 SIG Large Grip Module, Black - GRIPMODC943LGBLK . xm17 (Army) & m27 (USMC) vs F35 (everybody). – the Army will have M9s for the next 10 years at least. The difference is, I’m not doing so completely unprovoked). Two days ago omahaoutdoors.com ran a blandly titled post entitled Pentagon Weapons Testing Office Report on the SIG MHS / XM17. I don’t even like Glocks that much but this should be grounds for a lawsuit. The SIG P320 X Five for sale at Omaha Outdoors is a full-size member of the X-Series family that paves the way for all others in its class. I’m no Sig fan, and don’t want to start an Internet brawl. That’s why they changed the design from the Beretta 92SB to the SB-F, and why the SEALs switched to the P226 when everyone else was going to the 92. As someone who used an M9 for more than not looking too unfriendly during a meet and greet with your local terrorist enabler I hated the M9. What specific design or production elements render it poop? In other words, you simply square the velocity of recoil, which is easily calculated when we know the weight of the bullet and powder charge and its velocity when exiting from the muzzle. What makes it a turd? Too large Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. I now have zero enthusiasm for buying a new p365 because of Sig’s handling of the P320’s issues. They were just “UPGRADES”! Their entry into the striker fired market is the p320, a welcomed sight in a stagnating market and a very real replacement for Glock pistols for CCW and general shooting.Not sure about gun action… That’s the worst of the worst. Three Seals were hit in the face due to flying slides. Why? And when we proved that it wasn’t drop safe, they bold-face said “yes it is, you don’t know what you’re talking about.” And finally when it was a firestorm they couldn’t hide behind, they still refused to issue a recall, they instead called it a “voluntary upgrade” — so it puts the responsibility on the customer to find out about the problem. How did the introduction of the M16 go? SIG SAUER P320 M17 $1,499.99. LOL…..do you know what a camel is??? Range Sessions. I get putting less work on the shooty guys. Only useable by those with gorilla hands Required fields are marked *. And at least one cop was shot by it. just reinvent the wheel…. “Get over it”, and “make it work” hurts feelings, and as you know, in an organization whose sole purpose is ultimately to kill enemies and break their shit (and who have historically done a phenomenal job at that), ensuring that nobody has their feelings hurt is the #1, and #2, and #3, and possible also #4 priority. All animosity aside, how exactly does a pistol eject live ammunition? unreliable) and obsolete…. Sig P320 and Sig P320 For Sale. Marines have not even begun to budget for these and are buying G19Ms for deployed. As far as slides flyinig off give me a break. You can find the Sig Sauer P320 and P320-M17 for sale here, along with Sig P320 magazines, holsters, optics, lasers, and accessories. I mean its not like your timeline is wrong or anything. Oh, I’m sorry. It’s a huge project. New pistols and pistol training rank lower than a new PT uniform or pinks and greens. How about the F35, How about the FBI Glock, How about the …. And yeah, I’m buying the P365 ASAP. I prefer the G19 and its what I carry now. The settlement also applies to current and former P320 owners who previously returned their pistol to the company after a "cartridge failure event" and were told that it could not be repaired, according to the Sig document. The majority of common semi-auto pistol calibers don’t have that much recoil in guns that you can get a whole hand on. The Army put out specs to specifically exclude Glock (which had to make a bunch of modifications to even meet the basic requirements). Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army's Modular Handgun System is based. Virginia Gov. Maybe you should try actually gripping the gun instead of letting it flip around. The pistol they presented was a huge piece of trash. Small arms using 100+ year old technology should be off the shelf ready.. The settlement requires the gunmaker to … That isn’t just irresponsible, that’s irresponsible to the point of depravity. . An Iraqi military statement said an "an outlawed group" launched eight rockets targeting the Green Zone. Check out the Impact Guns video review on the Sig P320 X-Carry W/ Romeo 1 Red Dot. Its not like the P320 was introduced to the public in 2015 and the MHS tests in 2016. Problems with every sidearm they’ve chosen since dumping the 1911a1. “I do not think that polymer framed hand guns are suitable for US military use. The SIG Sauer M17 and M18 are service pistols used by the United States Armed Forces.. On January 19, 2017, the United States Army announced that a customized version of the SIG Sauer P320 had won the Army's XM17 Modular Handgun System competition.The full-sized model will be known as the M17, and the smaller-sized carry model will be known as the M18. Glock, Glock, and oh yes, Glock. In presenting new charges, the Justice Department is revisiting a case that deepened the chasm between the U.S. and Libya. . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1AZyH8DutQ. It is, however, a well-known and understood design issue that increases the amount that point of aim jumps on recoil unless you don’t believe in physics. Maybe you’d remember that if most of these people and blogs didn’t worship at the feet of Gaston…. Shooting Review: Sig Sauer P320 Carry | Eagle Gun Range Inc. “There were two trigger splintering hardware deficiencies observed during the IOT&E. The Army will regret it. Please dumb down the answer enough so that a lowly 11 year experienced manufacturing engineer, like myself, can understand. I’m not saying they should have gone with the Glock. When people didn’t go away, when multiple people PROVED the damn thing was unsafe (which they already KNEW it was!) This is not rocket science. Sig Sauer P320 RX, X-Five, TACOPS, X-VTAC on Sale at the Best Price in TX Unfortunately the gov’t will NEVER go with quality, and the higher (but manageable) costs that come with it. Speaking of perfection, does it bother anyone when someone claims that they will never, EVER, with absolute certainty, do a certain thing? The Beretta is an excellent gun as far as function too. I’ve had a lot of problems with Sig Sauer over the years with customer service and just junk breaking Inside their pistols. Thanks in advance. It’s not the number or rounds fired. 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Has a safety that has to be engaged and disengaged with the other hand It’s in their interest to find problems. Get more stuff n track it looser. Also, load-bearing contact surfaces seem undersized in some areas, and oversized in others. Oh I love the “cuz physics” argument. They then knowingly, consciously brought it to market and sold it to innocent customers. As a mechanical engineer I’ve been saying this all along–the P320 (along with its parent, the P250) is a dog turd. I do not think that polymer framed hand guns are suitable for US military use. The U.S. District Court for the Western District of Missouri is scheduled to hold a hearing June 25 to consider whether to approve the settlement and a request for attorneys' fees and expenses of up to $850,000, plus a payment of $1,400 to $2,800 for each named plaintiff, according to Sig Sauer. That’s insane. “Muh bore axis” not a valid excuse for your poor shooting skills. ?…..a horse by committee…. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. This is not an F-35 or even an M16. If your left handed you should learn to shoot right-handed before basic training was over. Bring back the Beretta and get over this modular handgun system crap. You mean the possible problem Beretta fixed 30 years ago? Sig Sauer P320 Nitron Compact 9mm Semi-Automatic Pistol, Blk - 320C-9 … Even worse, the report recommends the Army engineer some fixes “upon identification of the root cause” of the ejection issue — a statement that indicates the branch hasn’t yet identified the source of the issue. , Hell, the USMC settled this argument…its called the G19 Glock!!!!…NaHell!!!!! If they didn’t find any, they wouldn’t be doing their job and probably wouldn’t exist for too long. Quick view Sig Sauer. 9MM SEMI AUTO 10 ROUNDS 4.7 BARREL NOT SPECIFIED LBS. Which will be the same thing guys twenty years from now will say about all of these ‘reports’. It the abuse the equipment gets in the field. Don’t give me that G decocker crap or tell me about the M9A3 BS…not interested. When we asked about the P320 drop safe issue that August, SIG SAUER told TTAG they had modified the military model’s trigger to enhance the trigger pull and eliminate the “click” about which many users — including the U.S. Army — had complained. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1AZyH8DutQ. In the meantime. Around 14minutes he starts talking about the locking block. That’s EVIL. The bureaucracy that fielded the report exists to find problems. Your email address will not be published. Most units will never get the pistol despite the plans for secondary arms because no unit has the additional training time for a weapon that is only useful for looking friendly during Key Leader Engagements. Oooh, that’s MUCH better!”)? Customers Also Viewed. Christ we’ve been using the same rifle System since 1965 what was the big fire to carry a new handgun. All settlement members who continue to own their P320 pistol would receive a transferable Sig Sauer limited lifetime warranty against any future cartridge failure events, it adds. Grayguns PELT Sig Sauer P320 Competition Trigger Kit - Curved . . If they wanted to have a compact pistol for CID then there were many off the shelf options available. Meanwhile I’ll just pop some popcorn, enjoy the show and keep enjoying my Beretta 96. Another turd Sig has laid. It’s perfection -‘ just ask the FBI about their get 5s. Find out why the Sig P320 was awarded the 2016 American Rifleman Golden Bullseye "Handgun of the Year' award. It’s like a gun designed by a committee and none of the committee members were talking to each other. Note your shock and awe when there are gross inconsistencies between dimensions on seemingly the same model. Sig Sauer P320 Striker Fire Pistols For Sale. The M9-A3 addressed all the Army’s issues except for the slide mounted safety. The recent youtube video… is an obvious fake.”. taskandpurpose.com: The Pentagon’s overview on its gear and tech programs in 2017, conducted by the Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation and released earlier in January 2018, indicated that both the XM17 and XM18 pistols demonstrated a series of persistent problems, including accidental discharge, ejecting live ammunition, and relatively frequent stoppages when firing ammunition encased in a full metal jacket. Special Price $99.92 Regular Price $129.00. The P320 is obviously the system designed to carry the SIG Sauer banner deep into the 21st Century, going up against such impressive names as Ruger, S&W, Beretta, HK, FN and Glock. Individuals in this category can receive a refund of the "greater of the original price paid for their P320 (with proof of purchase) or the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price for their specific version" or receive a new P320 pistol of the "same or similar version," the document states. The government actually has pretty high standards. Sig Sauer P320 Takedown Safety Lever, Shortened Pin. Just another reason to NOT be an early adopter. Rating: … This is why the Ruger LCP sucks to shoot, even though it’s shooting a wimpy bullet, to give one of many examples. Is it a good idea to buy military pistols that fire when dropped, sometimes fire when the trigger isn’t depressed, and that won’t feed FMJ ammunition properly, just because you can remove the firing mechanism quickly and swap between ‘frames’ (which is, realistically, not really a huge consideration on a military pistol, but never mind. And these are the die-hard P-Series Pistols that have been around for years. Training problems will happen, user error will come into play, all kinds of things will pop up. Notify When In Stock. He clears up so many misconceptions and fuddlore stories. Then 300 about a month later. Looking at the requirements- stuff like “no finger grooves!”- the test was written for the answer, not the other way around.